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MIGUEL ANGEL TINOCO RODRIGUEZ

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Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.

Sun Jan 8, 2012 9:13 PM EST
religion, faith, immortality, baptism, repentance, eternal-life, lds-church, the-gift-of-the-holy-ghsot
By Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez
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Zion, January 8, 2012

 

For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

 

(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:39) 

 

Simply perceptible, immortality and eternal life are two different things.  Immortality means simply to live forever and Eternal life means to live forever in the presence of GOD.

Why then do you take counsel among yourselves and deny the existence of the true and living GOD? The Jesus Christ I know, the savior of the world, HE did come to save the world from their sins and NOT in their sins.  If we desire to inherit heaven, we need to speedily repent and forsake our sins and amend our ways as the prophet Jeremiah said, for no unclean thing can dwell in the presence of GOD.

 

Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SbQqZlDBQU

 

Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these. For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;  If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt: Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever. Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not; And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes?  Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.

 

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 7:4 - 11)

 

Salvation or immortality is a free gift to all living creatures, gentlemen, but internal life in the highest heaven or to obtain Eternal life in the presence of GOD, is something we have to work to earn or achieve and which is given as a right by grace and mercy but only after we have done all we can by works or by fulfilling all righteousness.  But we first have to exercise faith in Christ for the gift of repentance, by offering unto the LORD an acceptable sacrifice, that of a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And then we need to be baptized by immersion for the remission of sins in his Holy name; and also we need receive the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying of hands under those in authority in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  Then we must still work our salvation with fear and trembling keeping the holy commandments and the laws of God until the end of our lives. But only if it is that we desire to be saved by grace and mercy after having done all we can in obedience to GOD.

Now, the LORD loves and tolerates the sinner but cannot see sin with the least degree of allowance.  This is the part that most of you do not get and this is the reason why most people hate GOD and some even curse him.  He came to save us from sin not in our sins. For he, the LORD preaches repentance even since the beginning of the world by the Holy Ghost, by angels and by his duly appointed ministers, repentance unto a wicked and perverse world before the great and dreadful day of the LORD when he shall make his appearance in Glory when the gift of repentance would not very little or nothing for us if it is given.  And a great many have been condemned and destroyed in wickedness due to hardness of heart and unbelief. And these are not by words but the words of God which say:

For if I, who am a man, do lift up my voice and call upon you to repent, and ye hate me, what will ye say when the day cometh when the thunders shall utter their voices from the ends of the earth, speaking to the ears of all that live, saying—Repent, and prepare for the great day of the Lord?

 

Yea, and again, when the lightnings shall streak forth from the east unto the west, and shall utter forth their voices unto all that live, and make the ears of all tingle that hear, saying these words—Repent ye, for the great day of the Lord is come? And again, the Lord shall utter his voice out of heaven, saying: Hearken, O ye nations of the earth, and hear the words of that God who made you. O, ye nations of the earth, how often would I have gathered you together as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, but ye would not! How oft have I called upon you by the mouth of my servants, and by the ministering of angels, and by mine own voice, and by the voice of thunderings, and by the voice of lightnings, and by the voice of tempests, and by the voice of earthquakes, and great hailstorms, and by the voice of famines and pestilences of every kind, and by the great sound of a trump, and by the voice of judgment, and by the voice of mercy all the day long, and by the voice of glory and honor and the riches of eternal life, and would have saved you with an everlasting salvation, but ye would not! Behold, the day has come, when the cup of the wrath of mine indignation is full. Behold, verily I say unto you, that these are the words of the Lord your God.

 

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 43:21 - 27)

 

Had not GOD loved you, he would have not sent his only begotten son in the meridian of times for the remission of sins; and me for that matter in the latter days as was John the Baptist, to preach repentance to you.  And in doing so, we prepare the way of the LORD and make his path straight.  And this is also who we get rid of your blood from our garments.  For everyone that has been warned need to warn its fellow men. THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS THE LIFE AND THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD. AND HE IS ALSO THE WAY, for he said FOLLOW ME.  We, his servants only show unto all the children of men the path to follow. W e recede while he is glorified and exalted. And he has commissioned us to do his work, his strange work.

And as you see, I am not slacking bit in this purpose, for we have been transacting a great many words for a few days.  And I have absorbed your mocking, your reproaches and your spitting.  And you have called me crazy or a mad man.  Not only is that, but to preach repentance unto the world, despite your carnal, sensual and devils perception one of the greatest acts of kindness and love from a stranger to strangers.   All I have done is to declare unto you the consequences of sin and how to avoid them if you will come unto Christ.

Therefore, I have despite your insufferable unbelief been here answering with the truth most of your questions. It is not me you reject, but the LORD. What you despise is that I came to drop cold water n your party of wickedness and testify of your sins and your evil deeds.  Indeed this is a wicked and perverse generation; and the generation of vipers shall not escape the damnation of hell.  Had Christ come nowadays as he did in the meridian of times, you alike the Jews of the generation, you would also have rejected and crucified him as that wicked and perverse generation did.  OF this I bear solemn witness, and I have already sealed the law and the testimony with my own blood, and your reward is made sure.

Now, as most, if not all who have preceded me, who also have sealed the law and the testimony with their own blood, my commission is not necessarily to proselyte, but to reprove the world for their evil deeds.  I am also in need of repentance for the LORD has not found my works perfect.  And this is why I write about the light, so that multitude of sins are erased from me; and so that you could learn the truth before being reproved by it, but you chose the latter. 

Again, I am not the light, but to bear witness of it as boldly as it gets. Can’t you read that my name is Miguel or Michael?  And to honor that name I have to act like unto God in every which way to prove that his gospel is true and that is the doctrine of the father whose name is like mine or mine like into his, only backwards.  And the spirit that compels me to write the truth unto you is the spirit of God or Elohim which is in me.  I am the least in the kingdom of God on earth, and an unworthy instrument in the hands of Christ. My ancient father did as I am doing now and they were also mocked by their peers as you are doing with me and a great many of them were destroyed in the due time of the LORD as you will be destroyed unless you speedily repent.  Search your words and you will see that you have done likewise the wicked of previous generations have done to the prophets of GOD.

I myself was a sinner perhaps worst than most of you; however, I was not incredulous and I exercised faith in Jesus Christ for repentance. I searched the truth in the Holy Scriptures for correction so that I that I could be save me or spare me from eternal damnation.  I am a pure Israelite, from the lost tribes of the House of Israel, and by thirst after righteousness; I applied all the scriptures unto me.  And by way of commandment I must declare them. For the LORD has chosen me among my peers, and it was in the fire of affliction. And he has called me to be a prophet unto the nations and a light unto the gentiles, even like Jesus, his apostles and even Paul. And I have seen many visions and heard many things to holy to utter. Yea, I even applied to me even all the ugly scriptures that no one wants to read and I was not rebellious, nor did I turn my face away from the LORD. Yea the scriptures where the LORD says boldly:

HEAR ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness. For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The LORD of hosts is his name. I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

 

Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass; I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them. Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it?  I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them. Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb. For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.

 

Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction. For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted?  and I will not give my glory unto another.

 

Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

 

All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things?  The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.  

 

Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

 

(Old Testament | Isaiah 48:1 - 16)

 

Now brethren, it bothers me sorely that many intelligent souls like you are choosing the road to perdition.  And this is the reason for my anxiety; yea, to spare you the eternal pain of which I myself may have tasted a little. And it because I have been so bold you have rejected all my words and counsel together against me in this site. And it is because I am not an adulator, I will not patronize you in your wickedness as false friends or brethren do.  This is why I come here to take a stand on these high walls or virtual portals, to preach nothing anew, but news to the sinners. And  like unto my fathers did in their generation hoping that at least one soul will be persuaded to search these things diligently NI do also hope.

And I would like to reference one ancient patriarch called Enoch, who was also a preacher of righteousness.  And he was short of speech and when journeying by the sea east, he was called into his ministry directly by the voice of GOD.  And Enoch was in the same predicament that I am with you all today here; yea, even also by the seas east, where I am also a man short of speech, and who received my commission or commandments in the dessert of my affliction.  And who was commissioned to write all that the LORD puts in my heart and in my mind, hoping that my added testimony to his, will help you to rend that veil of darkness that covers your eyes and prevents you from seeing the truth.  And this is why I write, to keep the commandments.  And for  your comparison, these are the words of the ministry of Enoch, let him who has eyes to read, let him understand.

And it came to pass that Enoch went forth in the land, among the people, standing upon the hills and the high places, and cried with a loud voice, testifying against their works; and all men were offended because of him. And they came forth to hear him, upon the high places, saying unto the tent–keepers: Tarry ye here and keep the tents, while we go yonder to behold the seer, for he prophesieth, and there is a strange thing in the land; a wild man hath come among us.

 

And it came to pass when they heard him, no man laid hands on him; for fear came on all them that heard him; for he walked with God. And there came a man unto him, whose name was Mahijah, and said unto him: Tell us plainly who thou art, and from whence thou comest? And he said unto them: I came out from the land of Cainan, the land of my fathers, a land of righteousness unto this day.  And my father taught me in all the ways of God.

 

And it came to pass, as I journeyed from the land of Cainan, by the sea east, I beheld a vision; and lo, the heavens I saw, and the Lord spake with me, and gave me commandment; wherefore, for this cause, to keep the commandment, I speak forth these words. And Enoch continued his speech, saying: The Lord which spake with me, the same is the God of heaven, and he is my God, and your God, and ye are my brethren, and why counsel ye yourselves, and deny the God of heaven?

 

The heavens he made; the earth is his footstool; and the foundation thereof is his.  Behold, he laid it, an host of men hath he brought in upon the face thereof. And death hath come upon our fathers; nevertheless we know them, and cannot deny, and even the first of all we know, even Adam. For a book of remembrance we have written among us, according to the pattern given by the finger of God; and it is given in our own language.

 

And as Enoch spake forth the words of God, the people trembled, and could not stand in his presence. And he said unto them: Because that Adam fell, we are; and by his fall came death; and we are made partakers of misery and woe.

 

Behold Satan hath come among the children of men, and tempteth them to worship him; and men have become carnal, sensual, and devilish, and are shut out from the presence of God. But God hath made known unto our fathers that all men must repent. And he called upon our father Adam by his own voice, saying: I am God; I made the world, and men before they were in the flesh.

 

And he also said unto him: If thou wilt turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, and believe, and repent of all thy transgressions, and be baptized, even in water, in the name of mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth, which is Jesus Christ, the only name which shall be given under heaven, whereby salvation shall come unto the children of men, ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, asking all things in his name, and whatsoever ye shall ask, it shall be given you. And our father Adam spake unto the Lord, and said: Why is it that men must repent and be baptized in water?  And the Lord said unto Adam: Behold I have forgiven thee thy transgression in the Garden of Eden.

 

Hence came the saying abroad among the people, that the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt, wherein the sins of the parents cannot be answered upon the heads of the children, for they are whole from the foundation of the world.

 

And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying: Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, and they taste the bitter, that they may know to prize the good. And it is given unto them to know good from evil; wherefore they are agents unto themselves, and I have given unto you another law and commandment.

 

Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.

Therefore I give unto you a commandment, to teach these things freely unto your children, saying: That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory; For by the water ye keep the commandment; by the Spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified; Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things, which maketh alive all things; that which knoweth all things, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

 

And now, behold, I say unto you: This is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time. And behold, all things have their likeness, and all things are created and made to bear record of me, both things which are temporal, and things which are spiritual; things which are in the heavens above, and things which are on the earth, and things which are in the earth, and things which are under the earth, both above and beneath: all things bear record of me.

 

And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water. And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man. And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost.  This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever; And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity. Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons.  Amen.

 

(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 6:37 - 68)

 

Now, brethren, it appears that some of you are offended because I compare myself to these men, or even better, to Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living GOD.  But the scriptures that you reject make it plainly manifest that we are engendered sons and daughters unto God by the merits of his only begotten son, even Jesus Christ.  For as Adam and Christ were baptized, so are we, and we are with them partakers of eternal salvation.  And when we endeavor to be obedient unto him in keeping all his commandment at all peril we are given power by the power of the Holy Ghost in righteousness which is ultimate freedom to see as they see, to do as they do and to be like they are.  Or in other words to be one in them and they one with us.

Now instead of being angry at me, you should be angry at the scientific community that has strip you from the ability to believe and also to the devil and the so called Christian sectarianism that has blinded you so deep that you cannot even believe a portion of my words to exercise the minimum amount of faith. 

So was I. I was told that my ancestors, the principal progenitors of the American Indians were a mixture of many races, that populated this continent and came by the straight of Bearing. They wanted me to remain in individual and collective darkness, in idolatry and without a definite identity. And they blinded me with their vain and false theories that do not conform with the facts of truth; and form the covenants and promises that the GOD made with my fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But the Book of Mormon, the record that ma forefathers left behind before they dwindled in unbelief and before they degenerated and were destroyed, has been unearthed.  And as the prophets fore told in the psalms, truth have sprung from the earth and righteousness has smiled to us from heaven.  The LORD has remembered his people, the wilderness shall blossom and Jacob will flourish as the rose for mercy and truth have met together.

LORD, thou hast been favourable unto thy land: thou hast brought back the captivity of Jacob. Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin.  Selah. Thou hast taken away all thy wrath: thou hast turned thyself from the fierceness of thine anger. Turn us, O God of our salvation, and cause thine anger toward us to cease. Wilt thou be angry with us for ever?  wilt thou draw out thine anger to all generations? Wilt thou not revive us again: that thy people may rejoice in thee? Shew us thy mercy, O LORD, and grant us thy salvation. I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly. Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land. Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven. Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase. Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps.

 

(Old Testament | Psalms 85:1 - 13)

 

And all this, even the words that you are now reading, came to pass by the power of God and not of man. And as a result, the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ was restored on earth, and also his kingdom with power and great glory to never vanish away as long as the earth stands.  And this I write so you doubt not of my kindness to you in showing you the tender mercies of GOD.  Only if you will believe and chose Eternal life instead of just immortality in any other place!!! And this is the testimony I bear, in the Holy name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Attentively, an unworthy Servant it the hands of Christ

Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez

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  • Public Discussion (64)
Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez

Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders. And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.

Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know me, saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will melt them, and try them; for how shall I do for the daughter of my people? Their tongue is as an arrow shot out; it speaketh deceit: one speaketh peaceably to his neighbour with his mouth, but in heart he layeth his wait. Shall I not visit them for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

For the mountains will I take up a weeping and wailing, and for the habitations of the wilderness a lamentation, because they are burned up, so that none can pass through them; neither can men hear the voice of the cattle; both the fowl of the heavens and the beast are fled; they are gone. And I will make JerUSAlem heaps, and a den of dragons; and I will make the cities of Judah desolate, without an inhabitant.

Who is the wise man, that may understand this? and who is he to whom the mouth of the LORD hath spoken, that he may declare it, for what the land perisheth and is burned up like a wilderness, that none passeth through? And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein; But have walked after the imagination of their own heart, and after Baalim, which their fathers taught them: Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will feed them, even this people, with wormwood, and give them water of gall to drink.

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 9:4 - 15)

If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place. For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.

(Old Testament | 2 Chronicles 7:13 - 16)

    Reply#1 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 9:15 PM EST
    gordy327

    Lo and behold, more dogmatic BS comes to pass. YAWN!

    • 5 votes
    #1.1 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 9:17 PM EST
    Abby.


    If I shut up


    Yes, please!
    :D

    • 5 votes
    #1.2 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 1:17 AM EST
    Jonathan-1917156

    damn, how did this end up on my tracker. ARGH!!!!

    • 4 votes
    #1.3 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 1:23 AM EST
    Abby.

    Oops!
    *blushing*

    • 4 votes
    #1.4 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 3:42 AM EST
    Clara Listensprechen

    Behold I have seen it, sayeth me (it's not "saieth"), all of this created by the LORD:

    snakes, alligators, crocodiles, lions and tigers and bears (oh my), bed bugs, leeches, leprosy (it's biblical!) chiggers, ticks, mosquitos, no-see-ums, tapeworms, ringworms, roundworms, river skinworms, and viruses.

    The LORD gaveth dominion over all creation to Man but failed to give his pet predators and parasites the memo, knowing that Man would go forth unafraid and provide a copious banquet for the creatures who were REALLY God's blessed and Chosen pets.

      #1.5 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:38 PM EST
      katrix

      God in his wisdom made the fly, and then forgot to tell us why

      -Ogden Nash

      • 3 votes
      #1.6 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:46 PM EST
      Clara Listensprechen

      Ahh, one of my all-time favorite poets! :)

      • 2 votes
      #1.7 - Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:25 AM EST
      canary-in-the-coal-mine

      YEAH-US bruthuh - gimme a big amen - what that... "aw @!$%#"?

      BURN in the fires of the mythical hell I tell yah...BURN baby BURN!!

      Ghoulies and ghosties and long legged beasties and things that go BUMP in the night...

      ROFLMFAO!!

      • 2 votes
      #1.8 - Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:52 AM EST
      Reply
      Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez

      Thou hast also made our words powerful and great, even that we cannot write them; wherefore, when we write we behold our weakness, and stumble because of the placing of our words; and I fear lest the Gentiles shall mock at our words. And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying:

      Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;

      (Book of Mormon | Ether 12:25 - 26)

      THE fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

      Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God. There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them. Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.

      (Old Testament | Psalms 53:1 - 6)

        Reply#2 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 9:47 PM EST
        gordy327

        Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;

        Dogma just begs to be mocked, doesn't it?

        • 7 votes
        #2.1 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:32 PM EST
        Abby.

        Gordy!!
        *smooches*
        Howthebloodyhellareyaluvvy?
        :D

        • 4 votes
        #2.2 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 1:19 AM EST
        neenie1991

        Ether

        That would be great.

        • 3 votes
        #2.3 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 1:26 AM EST
        gordy327

        Howthebloodyhellareyaluvvy?

        Good Abby. And u? :)

        • 2 votes
        #2.4 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 7:36 AM EST
        Clara Listensprechen

        If God doesn't want to be mocked, he should stop being so ridiculously mockable. He'd definitely stop just being ridiculous.

          #2.5 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:40 PM EST
          angelsfireatfilthysoulsDeleted
          katrix

          Bye-bye again. You were banned for re-regging while you were suspended, and you were suspended for personal attacks. Those are the rules and even Jesus has to abide by them here.

          • 7 votes
          #2.7 - Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:35 AM EST
          Reply
          Abby.

          Sorry miguel, but you've failed to convince me yet again.
          I'd rather read this..........

          Game theory

          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (October 2011)

          Not to be confused with Game studies.

          This article is about the mathematical study of optimizing agents. For other uses, see Game theory (disambiguation).

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          Game theory is included in the JEL classification codes:
          JEL: C7

          Game theory is a mathematical method for analyzing calculated circumstances, such as in games, where a person's success is based upon the choices of others. More formally, it is "the study of mathematical models of conflict and cooperation between intelligent rational decision-makers."[1] An alternative term suggested "as a more descriptive name for the discipline" is interactive decision theory.[2] Game theory is mainly used in economics, political science, and psychology, and other, more prescribed sciences, like logic or biology. The subject first addressed zero-sum games, such that one person's gains exactly equal net losses of the other participant(s). Today, however, game theory applies to a wide range of class relations, and has developed into an umbrella term for the logical side of science, to include both human and non-humans, like computers. Classic uses include a sense of balance in numerous games, where each person has found or developed a tactic that cannot successfully better his results, given the other approach.

          Mathematical game theory had beginnings with some publications by Émile Borel, which led to his book Applications aux Jeux de Hasard. However, his results were limited, and the theory regarding the non-existence of blended-strategy equilibrium in two-player games was incorrect. Modern game theory began with the idea regarding the existence of mixed-strategy equilibria in two-person zero-sum games and its proof by John von Neumann. Von Neumann's original proof used Brouwer's fixed-point theorem on continuous mappings into compact convex sets, which became a standard method in game theory and mathematical economics. His paper was followed by his 1944 book Theory of Games and Economic Behavior, with Oskar Morgenstern, which considered cooperative games of several players. The second edition of this book provided an axiomatic theory of expected utility, which allowed mathematical statisticians and economists to treat decision-making under uncertainty.

          This theory was developed extensively in the 1950s by many scholars. Game theory was later explicitly applied to biology in the 1970s, although similar developments go back at least as far as the 1930s. Game theory has been widely recognized as an important tool in many fields. Eight game-theorists have won the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences, and John Maynard Smith was awarded the Crafoord Prize for his application of game theory to biology.

          Contents
          [hide] 1 History
          2 Representation of games 2.1 Extensive form
          2.2 Normal form
          2.3 Characteristic function form
          2.4 Partition function form

          3 General and applied uses 3.1 Description and modeling
          3.2 Prescriptive or normative analysis
          3.3 Economics and business
          3.4 Political science
          3.5 Biology
          3.6 Computer science and logic
          3.7 Philosophy

          4 Types of games 4.1 Cooperative or non-cooperative
          4.2 Symmetric and asymmetric
          4.3 Zero-sum and non-zero-sum
          4.4 Simultaneous and sequential
          4.5 Perfect information and imperfect information
          4.6 Combinatorial games
          4.7 Infinitely long games
          4.8 Discrete and continuous games
          4.9 Many-player and population games
          4.10 Stochastic outcomes (and relation to other fields)
          4.11 Metagames

          5 See also
          6 Notes
          7 References and further reading 7.1 Textbooks and general references
          7.2 Historically important texts
          7.3 Other print references
          7.4 Websites

          [edit] History

          John von Neumann
          Early discussions of examples of two-person games occurred long before the rise of modern, mathematical game theory. The first known discussion of game theory occurred in a letter written by James Waldegrave in 1713. In this letter, Waldegrave provides a minimax mixed strategy solution to a two-person version of the card game le Her. James Madison made what we now recognize as a game-theoretic analysis of the ways states can be expected to behave under different systems of taxation.[3][4] In his 1838 Recherches sur les principes mathématiques de la théorie des richesses (Researches into the Mathematical Principles of the Theory of Wealth), Antoine Augustin Cournot considered a duopoly and presents a solution that is a restricted version of the Nash equilibrium.

          The Danish mathematician Zeuthen proved that a mathematical model has a winning strategy by using Brouwer's fixed point theorem. In his 1938 book Applications aux Jeux de Hasard and earlier notes, Émile Borel proved a minimax theorem for two-person zero-sum matrix games only when the pay-off matrix was symmetric. Borel conjectured that non-existence of a mixed-strategy equilibria in two-person zero-sum games would occur, a conjecture that was proved false.

          Game theory did not really exist as a unique field until John von Neumann published a paper in 1928.[5] Von Neumann's original proof used Brouwer's fixed-point theorem on continuous mappings into compact convex sets, which became a standard method in game theory and mathematical economics. His paper was followed by his 1944 book Theory of Games and Economic Behavior, with Oskar Morgenstern, which considered cooperative games of several players. The second edition of this book provided an axiomatic theory of expected utility, which allowed mathematical statisticians and economists to treat decision-making under uncertainty. Von Neumann's work in game theory culminated in the 1944 book Theory of Games and Economic Behavior by von Neumann and Oskar Morgenstern. This foundational work contains the method for finding mutually consistent solutions for two-person zero-sum games. During this time period, work on game theory was primarily focused on cooperative game theory, which analyzes optimal strategies for groups of individuals, presuming that they can enforce agreements between them about proper strategies.[6]

          In 1950, the first discussion of the prisoner's dilemma appeared, and an experiment was undertaken on this game at the RAND corporation. Around this same time, John Nash developed a criterion for mutual consistency of players' strategies, known as Nash equilibrium, applicable to a wider variety of games than the criterion proposed by von Neumann and Morgenstern. This equilibrium is sufficiently general to allow for the analysis of non-cooperative games in addition to cooperative ones.

          Game theory experienced a flurry of activity in the 1950s, during which time the concepts of the core, the extensive form game, fictitious play, repeated games, and the Shapley value were developed. In addition, the first applications of Game theory to philosophy and political science occurred during this time.

          In 1965, Reinhard Selten introduced his solution concept of subgame perfect equilibria, which further refined the Nash equilibrium (later he would introduce trembling hand perfection as well). In 1967, John Harsanyi developed the concepts of complete information and Bayesian games. Nash, Selten and Harsanyi became Economics Nobel Laureates in 1994 for their contributions to economic game theory.

          In the 1970s, game theory was extensively applied in biology, largely as a result of the work of John Maynard Smith and his evolutionarily stable strategy. In addition, the concepts of correlated equilibrium, trembling hand perfection, and common knowledge[7] were introduced and analyzed.

          In 2005, game theorists Thomas Schelling and Robert Aumann followed Nash, Selten and Harsanyi as Nobel Laureates. Schelling worked on dynamic models, early examples of evolutionary game theory. Aumann contributed more to the equilibrium school, introducing an equilibrium coarsening, correlated equilibrium, and developing an extensive formal analysis of the assumption of common knowledge and of its consequences.

          In 2007, Leonid Hurwicz, together with Eric Maskin and Roger Myerson, was awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics "for having laid the foundations of mechanism design theory." Myerson's contributions include the notion of proper equilibrium, and an important graduate text: Game Theory, Analysis of Conflict (Myerson 1997). Hurwicz introduced and formalized the concept of incentive compatibility.

          [edit] Representation of games

          See also: List of games in game theory

          The games studied in game theory are well-defined mathematical objects. A game consists of a set of players, a set of moves (or strategies) available to those players, and a specification of payoffs for each combination of strategies. Most cooperative games are presented in the characteristic function form, while the extensive and the normal forms are used to define noncooperative games.

          [edit] Extensive form

          Main article: Extensive form game

          An extensive form game
          The extensive form can be used to formalize games with a time sequencing of moves. Games here are played on trees (as pictured to the left). Here each vertex (or node) represents a point of choice for a player. The player is specified by a number listed by the vertex. The lines out of the vertex represent a possible action for that player. The payoffs are specified at the bottom of the tree. The extensive form can be viewed as a multi-player generalization of a decision tree. (Fudenberg & Tirole 1991, p. 67)

          In the game pictured to the left, there are two players. Player 1 moves first and chooses either F or U. Player 2 sees Player 1's move and then chooses A or R. Suppose that Player 1 chooses U and then Player 2 chooses A, then Player 1 gets 8 and Player 2 gets 2.

          The extensive form can also capture simultaneous-move games and games with imperfect information. To represent it, either a dotted line connects different vertices to represent them as being part of the same information set (i.e., the players do not know at which point they are), or a closed line is drawn around them. (See example in the imperfect information section.)

          [edit] Normal form

          Player 2
          chooses Left

          Player 2
          chooses Right

          Player 1
          chooses Up

          4, 3

          –1, –1

          Player 1
          chooses Down

          0, 0

          3, 4

          Normal form or payoff matrix of a 2-player, 2-strategy game

          Main article: Normal-form game

          The normal (or strategic form) game is usually represented by a matrix which shows the players, strategies, and payoffs (see the example to the right). More generally it can be represented by any function that associates a payoff for each player with every possible combination of actions. In the accompanying example there are two players; one chooses the row and the other chooses the column. Each player has two strategies, which are specified by the number of rows and the number of columns. The payoffs are provided in the interior. The first number is the payoff received by the row player (Player 1 in our example); the second is the payoff for the column player (Player 2 in our example). Suppose that Player 1 plays Up and that Player 2 plays Left. Then Player 1 gets a payoff of 4, and Player 2 gets 3.

          When a game is presented in normal form, it is presumed that each player acts simultaneously or, at least, without knowing the actions of the other. If players have some information about the choices of other players, the game is usually presented in extensive form.

          Every extensive-form game has an equivalent normal-form game, however the transformation to normal form may result in an exponential blowup in the size of the representation, making it computationally impractical. (Leyton-Brown & Shoham 2008, p. 35)

          [edit] Characteristic function form

          Main article: Cooperative game

          In games that possess removable utility separate rewards are not given; rather, the characteristic function decides the payoff of each unity. The idea is that the unity that is 'empty', so to speak, does not receive a reward at all.

          The origin of this form is to be found in John von Neumann and Oskar Morgenstern's book; when looking at these instances, they guessed that when a union C appears, it works against the fraction (N/C) as if two individuals were playing a normal game. The balanced payoff of C is a basic function. Although there are differing examples that help determine coalitional amounts from normal games, not all appear that in their function form can be derived from such.

          Formally, a characteristic function is seen as: (N,v), where N represents the group of people and v:2^N-->R is a normal utility.

          Such characteristic functions have expanded to describe games where there is no removable utility.

          [edit] Partition function form

          The characteristic function form ignores the possible externalities of coalition formation. In the partition function form the payoff of a coalition depends not only on its members, but also on the way the rest of the players are partitioned (Thrall & Lucas 1963).

          [edit] General and applied uses

          As a method of applied mathematics, game theory has been used to study a wide variety of human and animal behaviors. It was initially developed in economics to understand a large collection of economic behaviors, including behaviors of firms, markets, and consumers. The use of game theory in the social sciences has expanded, and game theory has been applied to political, sociological, and psychological behaviors as well.

          Game-theoretic analysis was initially used to study animal behavior by Ronald Fisher in the 1930s (although even Charles Darwin makes a few informal game-theoretic statements). This work predates the name "game theory", but it shares many important features with this field. The developments in economics were later applied to biology largely by John Maynard Smith in his book Evolution and the Theory of Games.

          In addition to being used to describe, predict, and explain behavior, game theory has also been used to develop theories of ethical or normative behavior and to prescribe such behavior.[8] In economics and philosophy, scholars have applied game theory to help in the understanding of good or proper behavior. Game-theoretic arguments of this type can be found as far back as Plato.[9]

          [edit] Description and modeling

          A three stage Centipede Game
          The first known use is to describe and model how human populations behave. Some scholars believe that by finding the equilibria of games they can predict how actual human populations will behave when confronted with situations analogous to the game being studied. This particular view of game theory has come under recent criticism. First, it is criticized because the assumptions made by game theorists are often violated. Game theorists may assume players always act in a way to directly maximize their wins (the Homo economicus model), but in practice, human behavior often deviates from this model. Explanations of this phenomenon are many; irrationality, new models of deliberation, or even different motives (like that of altruism). Game theorists respond by comparing their assumptions to those used in physics. Thus while their assumptions do not always hold, they can treat game theory as a reasonable scientific ideal akin to the models used by physicists. However, additional criticism of this use of game theory has been levied because some experiments have demonstrated that individuals do not play equilibrium strategies. For instance, in the centipede game, guess 2/3 of the average game, and the dictator game, people regularly do not play Nash equilibria. There is an ongoing debate regarding the importance of these experiments.[10]

          Alternatively, some authors claim that Nash equilibria do not provide predictions for human populations, but rather provide an explanation for why populations that play Nash equilibria remain in that state. However, the question of how populations reach those points remains open.

          Some game theorists have turned to evolutionary game theory in order to resolve these issues. These models presume either no rationality or bounded rationality on the part of players. Despite the name, evolutionary game theory does not necessarily presume natural selection in the biological sense. Evolutionary game theory includes both biological as well as cultural evolution and also models of individual learning (for example, fictitious play dynamics).

          [edit] Prescriptive or normative analysis

          Cooperate

          Defect

          Cooperate

          -1, -1

          -10, 0

          Defect

          0, -10

          -5, -5

          The Prisoner's Dilemma

          On the other hand, some scholars see game theory not as a predictive tool for the behavior of human beings, but as a suggestion for how people ought to behave. Since a Nash equilibrium of a game constitutes one's best response to the actions of the other players, playing a strategy that is part of a Nash equilibrium seems appropriate. However, this use for game theory has also come under criticism. First, in some cases it is appropriate to play a non-equilibrium strategy if one expects others to play non-equilibrium strategies as well. For an example, see Guess 2/3 of the average.

          Second, the Prisoner's dilemma presents another potential counterexample. In the Prisoner's Dilemma, each player pursuing his own self-interest leads both players to be worse off than had they not pursued their own self-interests.


          Have a nice day.
          :D

          • 2 votes
          Reply#3 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:30 AM EST
          Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez

          OK KORIHOR, there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that you and your fellows are sovereign antichrists.

          And then Alma said unto him: Believest thou that there is a God? And he answered, Nay.

          Now Alma said unto him: Will ye deny again that there is a God, and also deny the Christ? For behold, I say unto you, I know there is a God, and also that Christ shall come. And now what evidence have ye that there is no God, or that Christ cometh not? I say unto you that ye have none, save it be your word only. But, behold, I have all things as a testimony that these things are true; and ye also have all things as a testimony unto you that they are true; and will ye deny them?

          Believest thou that these things are true? Behold, I know that thou believest, but thou art possessed with a lying spirit, and ye have put off the Spirit of God that it may have no place in you; but the devil has power over you, and he doth carry you about, working devices that he may destroy the children of God.

          (Book of Mormon | Alma 30:37 - 42)

          But the time will come in which you will be presented to face the bar of GOD and you will see him and be ashamed to have denied his existence for our words will condemn you. Not only that, but I prophesy unto you in the name of Jesus Christ that before that day you will know of a surety about his existence and coming to destroy you by the brightness of his coming. For in our sins all of our works, words and thoughts will condemns us. And in that day these are the things that will go to your own mind. And this shall be your saying for of thus it is written:

          For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to hide us from his presence.

          But this cannot be; we must come forth and stand before him in his glory, and in his power, and in his might, majesty, and dominion, and acknowledge to our everlasting shame that all his judgments are just; that he is just in all his works, and that he is merciful unto the children of men, and that he has all power to save every man that believeth on his name and bringeth forth fruit meet for repentance. And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness. Then is the time when their torments shall be as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever; and then is the time that they shall be chained down to an everlasting destruction, according to the power and captivity of Satan, he having subjected them according to his will. Then, I say unto you, they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to God's justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption.

          (Book of Mormon | Alma 12:14 - 18)

          • 1 vote
          Reply#4 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 7:28 AM EST
          gordy327

          OK KORIHOR, there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that you and your fellows are sovereign antichrists.

          One thing is for sure, there is no doubt in my mind that your ravings are getting more absurd and laughable with each post.

          And then Alma said unto him: Believest thou that there is a God? And he answered, Nay.

          Sounds like a smart guy.

          • 5 votes
          #4.1 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 7:38 AM EST
          Abby.

          Seconded!
          Maybe he's been listening to Black Sabbath being played backwards again.......
          *shrugs*

          • 4 votes
          #4.2 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 8:54 AM EST
          Reply
          Miguel Angel Tinoco RodriguezExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

          This was the fate of Korihor and that is the same fate youwill run when your house is left unto you desolate. I myslef have seen it.

          Therefore, watch up yourself in the road Gordy, you may end up like ketchup or trodden under foot like a tomato for perverting the ways of the LORD. Take it easy with the jelly pastries also, smart guy, they may clog up your arteries and stop your heart. For this is the end of wickedness like you and their cat minded supporters. Here is what you may expect shortly to come to pass. For of such it is written:

          And it came to pass that the curse was not taken off of Korihor; but he was cast out, and went about from house to house begging for his food. Now the knowledge of what had happened unto Korihor was immediately published throughout all the land; yea, the proclamation was sent forth by the chief judge to all the people in the land, declaring unto those who had believed in the words of Korihor that they must speedily repent, lest the same judgments would come unto them.

          And it came to pass that they were all convinced of the wickedness of Korihor; therefore they were all converted again unto the Lord; and this put an end to the iniquity after the manner of Korihor.

          And Korihor did go about from house to house, begging food for his support. And it came to pass that as he went forth among the people, yea, among a people who had separated themselves from the Nephites and called themselves Zoramites, being led by a man whose name was Zoram—and as he went forth amongst them, behold, he was run upon and trodden down, even until he was dead.

          And thus we see the end of him who perverteth the ways of the Lord; and thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day, but doth speedily drag them down to hell.

          (Book of Mormon | Alma 30:56 - 60)

          • 1 vote
          Reply#5 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:13 AM EST
          gordy327

          Therefore, watch up yourself in the road Gordy, you may end up like ketchup or trodden under foot like a tomato for perverting the ways of the LORD. Take it easy with the jelly pastries also, smart guy, they may clog up your arteries and stop your heart.

          Wow, that's even more nonsensical than usual for you Miguel.

          For of such it is written:

          Of course you believe everything you're told or what is written, right? That is the very definition of guillable (among other things).

          BTW, prove there is a god! You keep dodging that challenge and show your complete lack of credibility, not to mention making yourself look foolish.

          • 3 votes
          #5.1 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 10:40 AM EST
          neenie1991

          Hey gordy, what are your thoughts on ketchup? I think it's an overused condiment myslef (sic).

          • 1 vote
          #5.2 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 2:26 PM EST
          gordy327

          Hey gordy, what are your thoughts on ketchup?

          Goes good with anything. Thank god for ketchup. Or is it Catsup? @_@ LOL

          I'm reminded of an old Far Side cartoon: these vultures are gathered at their "kill," and one of them says: "Ewww, this thing's been here awhile. Well, thank god for ketchup." LOL

          I think it's an overused condiment myslef (sic).

          Would you prefer mustard? :P

          • 1 vote
          #5.3 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 2:38 PM EST
          Abby.

          This was the fate of Korihor and that is the same fate youwill run when your house is left unto you desolate. I myslef have seen it.

          Therefore, watch up yourself in the road Gordy, you may end up like ketchup or trodden under foot like a tomato for perverting the ways of the LORD. Take it easy with the jelly pastries also, smart guy, they may clog up your arteries and stop your heart. For this is the end of wickedness like you and their cat minded supporters. Here is what you may expect shortly to come to pass. For of such it is written:

          Reported.
          Death wishing.

          • 1 vote
          #5.4 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:03 PM EST
          Reply
          Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez

          Depart from me Satan, for it is written, thou shall not tempt the LORD thy God.

          Thou hast had signs enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator. And yet do ye go about, leading away the hearts of this people, testifying unto them there is no God? And yet will ye deny against all these witnesses?

          (Book of Mormon | Alma 30:44 - 45)

          • 1 vote
          Reply#6 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 10:48 AM EST
          gordy327

          Depart from me Satan

          Hey, look at that. I'm still here, LOL

          Thou hast had signs enough

          Still can't prove your god exists I see. No surprise there.

          • 2 votes
          #6.1 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 11:04 AM EST
          grump in NM

          I am not even sure Miguel exists.

          • 3 votes
          #6.2 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 11:14 AM EST
          gordy327

          I am not even sure Miguel exists.

          Maybe he referenced his "holy book" to prove it. That counts as proof, right? >sarc<

          • 2 votes
          #6.3 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 11:21 AM EST
          Reply
          gordy327
          • 1 vote
          Reply#7 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 11:04 AM EST
          Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez

          Behold, I am grieved because of the hardness of your heart, yea, that ye will still resist the spirit of the truth, that thy soul may be destroyed. But behold, it is better that thy soul should be lost than that thou shouldst be the means of bringing many souls down to destruction, by thy lying and by thy flattering words; therefore if thou shalt deny again, behold God shall smite thee…

          Therefore be done unto you in accordance with the will of the LORD, for your fate has been sealed in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

          • 1 vote
          Reply#8 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:29 PM EST
          grump in NM

          Well, OK, then. But what does that have to do with you?

          • 4 votes
          #8.1 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:34 PM EST
          gordy327

          Therefore be done unto you in accordance with the will of the LORD, for your fate has been sealed in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

          Then it's god's fault to begin with. What a douche of a deity.

          Well, OK, then. But what does that have to do with you?

          He thinks he's god or Jesus. So he probably thinks he just sealed my fate. :D

          • 3 votes
          #8.2 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 1:43 PM EST
          Abby.

          Gordy,
          This guy really wants you dead!
          .......wow..............
          So much for a merciful "god"!

          • 3 votes
          #8.3 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:06 PM EST
          gordy327

          This guy really wants you dead!

          Maybe that's why he got suspended for a week. You should see what he wrote on my old article about the US not being a christian nation.

          So much for a merciful "god"!

          Is this the same god that drowned every living thing, torches a couple of cities, ruined some guy's life over a bet, turned people into sodium chloride, and overalls send you to hell to burn for eternity because he loves you? That god? What an ogre! Why anyone would worship such a thing is beyond me.

          • 3 votes
          #8.4 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:18 PM EST
          gordy327

          This guy really wants you dead!

          Maybe that's why he got suspended for a week. You should see what he wrote on my old article about the US not being a christian nation.

          So much for a merciful "god"!

          Is this the same god that drowned every living thing, torches a couple of cities, ruined some guy's life over a bet, turned people into sodium chloride, and overalls send you to hell to burn for eternity because he loves you? That god? What an ogre! Why anyone would worship such a thing is beyond me.

          • 3 votes
          #8.5 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:20 PM EST
          Abby.

          Maybe that's why he got suspended for a week.

          When did that happen?

          • 1 vote
          #8.6 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:26 PM EST
          gordy327

          When did that happen?

          Several hours ago. I ended up deleting one of his posts due to inflammatory remarks too.

          • 3 votes
          #8.7 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:53 PM EST
          grump in NM

          Oh, no. Do you guys think it was the devil that suspended him? That devil Sally or the devil Tyler. I bet their horns are even longer now than they were yesterday.

          God works in wondrous and mysterious ways.

          • 1 vote
          #8.8 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 7:13 PM EST
          gordy327

          Do you guys think it was the devil that suspended him? That devil Sally or the devil Tyler. I bet their horns are even longer now than they were yesterday.

          Maybe Miguel is busy casting the demons from them or maybe condemning them to hell for keeping him from "serving the lord?" :D

          • 2 votes
          #8.9 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 7:53 PM EST
          grump in NM

          Let's all go over to Sir Richard Owens' place and see what did Migs in. This should be entertaining. Ah, Migs, what did you have to go do that for when you were on such a roll?

          God may be trying to tell you something, Migs.

          • 1 vote
          #8.10 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 8:01 PM EST
          grump in NM

          Let the lord rebuke thee, Gordy, for I have detected the devil in you and I know your stinking kind;

          Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.

          Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

          Oh, no, Migs. Now that wasn't necessary was it? Christ was a man of kindness, love and compassion. Love thy neighbor as you love thyself, Christ said. You are not showing much love, Migs. I think you are doing something wrong, buddy. I love you, Migs. ♥♥♥

          • 4 votes
          #8.11 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 8:28 PM EST
          katrix

          I wonder if he'll curse Sally and Tyler. He's cursed several of us so far.

          • 3 votes
          #8.12 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:05 PM EST
          grump in NM

          Migs hasn't cursed me yet. He knows I love him. ♥♥♥

          • 2 votes
          #8.13 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:12 PM EST
          Reply
          voiceofwarning

          DID YOU MISS ME?

          The generation of vipers shall not escape the damnation of HELL.

          Zion, January, 10th 2012

          As is the mother, so is her daughter.

          Dear MSNBC and/or the Newsvine code of honor guardians, even to Turner and Sally and to Sally and Turner and all those great and small who represent these houses of press for that matter.

          The reason I am writing to you today, is to ask you in a solemn and satisfactory manner to please reinstate my account at your news vine site on account of the spiritual importance of my work regardless attention or belief. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO IT BUT I AM KINDLY ASKING FOR IT. The choice is always yours. And this is the reason why I ask for it, whether you are initiated or not in the heavenly art of prophecy and revelation.

          You have chosen to ban me or have suspended me from using my account in your MSNBC Newsvine site as a result of truth. In other words, you have chosen a plague of scarab scoundrels and mocking birds over the true rain to the vine. They are the ones you should have suspended and not me. If you just knew how they expressed themselves bout you after you suspended me. That alone should tell you the plague of terror you are dealing with. In any case, it was not the vine that chose me, but it was I who chose the vine to conduct the marvelous and strange work of the LORD as a special witness unto the truth.

          My work may not be important or attractive to the masses, but it serves a higher purpose behind the scenes. It confesses boldly the sins of the people and the consequences thereof, both temporal and eternal, so that they are not suddenly taken by the devil and go into captivity in ignorance by an enemy that they never met. It is a social service of great import in view of the ignorance of many. And by shutting me down, you are yielding to terror, and asking for torment, for those scoundrels that I have mentioned who you have preferred to listen over me, who are indeed a plague to the vine do wish the heavens to be shut down so that there is no spiritual rain. Even though most do not care, there must be one soul here or there that is searching for what I have to offer. This in consequence, endangers the spiritual and temporal well being of the elderly, the youth and even the raising generation. And that will bring torment to a great many souls as a result of spiritual darkness. And they have made you and your house, that is MSNBC AND the NEWSVINE, an accessory to their wicked purpose whether they or you know it or not. For I know that the devil is whispering in their ears lies and deceptions, which they freely publish and in so doing they carry this people into captivity. For if your support their work you support them.

          Now, if you knew who writes upon these walls or virtual portals, you would move out of the way indeed give complete clearance. My work is genuine, unedited, meaningful and full of purpose. I use my true and legal name and no pseudo names, for I am responsible before man and GOD for every word that proceeds from my hand. And everything I do, I ascribe it with proper authority to Jesus Christ, which is greater than mine. I am serious and I am not here to entertain or to play with fire.

          You as representatives of journalism, are committing a greater crimes than what I may have done breaking your so called code of honor. Since when do serpents have honor? Are you going to shut me down because I call you serpents or the more subtle creatures that exists in nature? If you do, it is because you believe that you are or maybe you do not believe it. As far as I know, you are human beings not serpents. It is a true figurative speech; and as such you may or may not understand it. Nonetheless is the way of expression I utilize for myself in order to transact or rain ideas and knowledge from heaven in the world. This is the refreshment or the latter rain and yet you will not hear me. But if you shut me down, you have and are censoring the truth, infringing upon freedom of speech and obstructing divine justice. In other words, you are committing crimes against journalism; or you are eating your very own tail in a vicious cycle as a counterproductive snake. You are infringing upon the civil freedom and liberty civil of an American citizen who is expressing his beliefs and views with tested words on a public site that you use for gain or commercial purposes. Despite your so called codes of honor, what you have done is a violation of local and federal law. And if I can keep digging, you may also be committing discrimination on the basis of gender, race, and religious belief.

          In any case, if you are bored, I think you should consider or pass my words to someone with more authority in your organization and who can have the intellect to considerer the gravity of your offenses. For I have no need to break your laws or codes, unless they are unrighteous, for I keep the laws of God, which are more strict and higher than the laws of men and even the laws of the land. That means that I am a law abiding citizen, who is minding his own business whose right is guaranteed by the laws of the land.

          Now Tuner, I hope you have heard the proverb that says like father like son. I must turn my attention to you particularly and give you a portion of torment by making you and Sally responsible for what will shortly come to pass. And I will ascribe unto you the sins of all these scarabs, scoundrels and mocking birds that you have listened to. For of this it is written:

          Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst. They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beer-sheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.

          And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day: And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.

          (Old Testament | Amos 8:9 - 14)

          I am a witness of Jesus Christ and I am given liberty to ask and receive whatever I want from heaven, even to smite the earth with famine and plagues as often as I want it. And it will be granted. But, I wish no evil, for I am not totally exempt from suffering peril also, for the LORD is not a respecter of persons and not everyone in my family and my friends are obedient. This is why I preach repentance day and night, so that I am not compelled to ask for mischief when warranted. But the judgments usually come by the voice of the people and the desire in their hearts. And those scarab scoundrels want a famine. They represent the wickedness of the world you live in; and that is why I was concentrated in addressing them, so that they and not the people do suffer what the judgments of God approach us. Are you going to allow them to speak for you and drag you with them to woe and misery? Now of this it is also written:

          And there were exceedingly many prophets among us. And the people were a stiffnecked people, hard to understand. And there was nothing save it was exceeding harshness, preaching and prophesying of wars, and contentions, and destructions, and continually reminding them of death, and the duration of eternity, and the judgments and the power of God, and all these things—stirring them up continually to keep them in the fear of the Lord.

          I say there was nothing short of these things, and exceedingly great plainness of speech, would keep them from going down speedily to destruction. And after this manner do I write concerning them.

          (Book of Mormon | Enos 1:22 - 23)

          Now it is your turn, Sally, and as I said to turner, I hope you have heard the old proverb that says: As is the mother, so is her daughter, for I will judge you as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged.

          In other words I will compare you to Babylon. We in truth would have healed the world or Babylon from mischief with balm, from Gilead; yea, I am speaking about that great harlot that has spread corruption on the earth. And we are commanded to forsake her for her iniquity has reached up heaven. This is the fate that awaits her, for of her it is also written:

          Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.

          We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies.

          The LORD hath brought forth our righteousness: come, and let us declare in Zion the work of the LORD our God.

          Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.

          Set up the standard upon the walls of Babylon, make the watch strong, set up the watchmen, prepare the ambushes: for the LORD hath both devised and done that which he spake against the inhabitants of Babylon.

          O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures, thine end is come, and the measure of thy covetousness. The LORD of hosts hath sworn by himself, saying, Surely I will fill thee with men, as with caterpillers; and they shall lift up a shout against thee. He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding. When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens; and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth: he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. Every man is brutish by his knowledge; every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are vanity, the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.

          (Old Testament | Jeremiah 51:7 - 18)

          Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD: Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them; Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness. And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy. And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.

          They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords. And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more. So will I make my fury toward thee to rest, and my jealousy shall depart from thee, and I will be quiet, and will be no more angry. Because thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, but hast fretted me in all these things; behold, therefore I also will recompense thy way upon thine head, saith the Lord GOD: and thou shalt not commit this lewdness above all thine abominations. Behold, every one that useth proverbs shall use this proverb against thee, saying, As is the mother, so is her daughter.

          (Old Testament | Ezekiel 16:35 - 44)

          And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it. And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;

          (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 88:94 - 95)

          Therefore, oh inhabitants of the earth, fear God and give Glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come. These words have come through inspiration so that you know what awaits you as individuals, as a nation and as a world. I was not expecting to begin my work so soon, but it has come as a result of your own actions. In other words, you have unleashed a sequence of events that in the due time of the LORD will bring about the next apocalypse. For the law and the testimony has already been sealed even with blood.

          Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth. Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech. Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground? When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rie in their place? For his God doth instruct him to discretion, and doth teach him. For the fitches are not threshed with a threshing instrument, neither is a cart wheel turned about upon the cummin; but the fitches are beaten out with a staff, and the cummin with a rod. Bread corn is bruised; because he will not ever be threshing it, nor break it with the wheel of his cart, nor bruise it with his horsemen.

          This also cometh forth from the LORD of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working.

          (Old Testament | Isaiah 28:22 - 29)

          And these things I do not say of myself, but as the LORD has spoken, he shall also fulfill, and I do what I do, with a single eye for the honor and glory of God, with proper authority and in the Holy Name of Jesus Christ, amen.

          Attentively, yours, an unworthy servant in the hands of Christ

          Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez

          • 1 vote
          Reply#9 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:34 AM EST
          sky dog

          WOW!!!! Hyde Park soapbox at its best!! If NV has any aspirations to be a free-thinking exchange of ideas, the above is certainly the turd in the punchbowl. Maybe a parallel NV site, exclusively for the religious proselytizers in the crowd? I know I'm on the wrong seed when there are consistently 2 page posts, solid bold and/or solid cap posts.

          • 4 votes
          #9.1 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:20 PM EST
          katrix

          Yeah, there should be a way to report scripture trolling. I delete it from my seeds, but there should be a way to report it on other people's. Same with the solid caps and screaming that the scripture trollers like to do.

          • 6 votes
          #9.2 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:48 PM EST
          Reply
          voiceofwarning

          And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

          (New Testament | Revelation 14:6 - 8)

          • 1 vote
          Reply#10 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:35 AM EST
          voiceofwarning

          January 10, 2012

          Now Fatty, I guess you could not take the heat. For commenting the truth on you site you reported me so I could be suspended. Indeed the truth hurts the wicked soul and it pierces it to the center. How many blasphemies and trivial things, lies and deceptions, evil speaking, slandering and sarcasm have you not published and also said in my site and have I silenced you or rejected you without a proper warning? Have I trespassed against you taking away your freedom of expression in the least? Nay but I have been longsuffering regardless of you impudence. NOW you and your friends who suppot you in your vain words have brought an irreversible curse upon yourself, for you now you see that I cannot be restrained and come and go in the power of the LORD for he has commanded me. But I now must keep silence for you are all unworthy of my presence. Fare well.

          Now I restore the comment I wrote in your site and which you of yourself cannot erase unless you go again behind the scenes like a coward. It matter not to me. I have concluded my errand and you and some other already know about it. Bye, Bye.

          Your comment:

          You are dead wrong, fatty327, in your views, in your assumption and in your thoughts. It is vain wishful and perverted thinking of yours. You are eating too many Twinkies and are given into fables.

          Not only was this country intended to be or inspired after sound Christian values but the whole continent whether you like it or not is destined to be ruled by Jesus Christ alone, for he is more particularly the GOD of these lands. And all who live in it must serve him or be swept off when there are rip in iniquity in his wrath. And the day will shortly come to pass when the whole continent will only be known as Zion, which is a more consolidated form of the word UNITED SATES. But these truth you willfuly ignore, for you have turned your face away from the truth as a result of iniquity.

          Let me assure you and all those that may give heed to these words, that many have known these truths way before America came to be the nation of nations, others knew it during inception or at the national convention when the US constitution was framed. And some of us knew it a little later. You, will never know it for a lying spirit is in possession of your whole soul. Here is the word of God himself concerning it. For the spirit of GOD is the spirit of liberty and where that spirit dwells there is freedom. Here are at least three or four distinct testimonies of ancient and standing records that support my claims against your filthy words. you cannot hide your sins from GOD. And this is how angels fire at filthy souls.

          Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

          (New Testament | 2 Corinthians 3:17)

          And now it came to pass that when Moroni, who was the chief commander of the armies of the Nephites, had heard of these dissensions, he was angry with Amalickiah. And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole. And he fastened on his head–plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land— For thus were all the true believers of Christ, who belonged to the church of God, called by those who did not belong to the church. And those who did belong to the church were faithful; yea, all those who were true believers in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come. And therefore, at this time, Moroni prayed that the cause of the Christians, and the freedom of the land might be favored. And it came to pass that when he had poured out his soul to God, he named all the land which was south of the land Desolation, yea, and in fine, all the land, both on the north and on the south—A chosen land, and the land of liberty.

          (Book of Mormon | Alma 46:11 - 17)

          And the Lord would not suffer that they should stop beyond the sea in the wilderness, but he would that they should come forth even unto the land of promise, which was choice above all other lands, which the Lord God had preserved for a righteous people. And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity. For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off. And this cometh unto you, O ye Gentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God—that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the wrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done. Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written.

          (Book of Mormon | Ether 2:7 - 12)

          And again I say unto you, those who have been scattered by their enemies, it is my will that they should continue to importune for redress, and redemption, by the hands of those who are placed as rulers and are in authority over you—According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles; That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment. Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

          (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 101:76 - 80)

          "The 5,000 Year Leap," a treatise that assembles selective quotations and groundless assertions to claim that the U.S. Constitution is rooted not in the Enlightenment bu

          • 1 vote
          Reply#11 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:12 AM EST
          tyler

          voiceofwarning banned, multiple of currently suspended Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez, also banned. Don't register multiple accounts.

          • 9 votes
          #11.1 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:54 PM EST
          jfxgillis

          tyler:

          Thank God.

          • 6 votes
          #11.2 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:03 PM EST
          gordy327

          tyler:

          Thank God.

          Tyler IS god! LOL

          • 5 votes
          #11.3 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:05 PM EST
          neenie1991

          :)

          • 2 votes
          #11.4 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:47 PM EST
          Abby.

          Wow.....
          That guy just doesn't give up!

          • 4 votes
          #11.5 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:02 PM EST
          katrix

          Oh wow, an irreversible curse? I'm scared! And he says he comes and goes in the power of the lord and cannot be restrained - guess he's never met Tyler.

          • 5 votes
          #11.6 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:05 PM EST
          katrix

          I guess the lord wanted him to go again, and Tyler or Sally were just the tool that the lord used to fulfill His will.

          • 3 votes
          #11.7 - Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:33 AM EST
          sky dog

          Ah BeLIEVE!! And commend his electrons to entropy.

          • 3 votes
          #11.8 - Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:38 AM EST
          tyler

          angelsfireatfilthysouls, zeugirboR oconiT legnA leugiM banned, reregs of Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez.

          • 6 votes
          #11.9 - Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:19 PM EST
          grump in NM

          Tyler is a golden, sparkling (not a "Twilight" kind of sparkle) god of truth, beauty and light. My back hurts today so I am not going to bow down very far -- just a polite bow for today.

          • 4 votes
          #11.10 - Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:44 PM EST
          Clara Listensprechen

          Hardly.

            #11.11 - Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:32 PM EST
            Reply
            voiceofwarningDeleted
            zeugirboR oconiT legnA leugiMDeleted
            neenie1991

            zeugirboR oconiT legnA leugiM

            Yeah, that was a real brain teaser.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#14 - Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:02 AM EST
            Abby.

            Lol!

            • 2 votes
            #14.1 - Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:21 AM EST
            Reply
            angelsfireatfilthysoulsDeleted
            angelsfireatfilthysoulsDeleted
            angelsfireatfilthysoulsDeleted
            canary-in-the-coal-mine

            WOOF! - so sayeth the DOGma

            Don't worry - he'll be back - you just can't get rid of a bad penny that easily...we need amusement

            • 2 votes
            Reply#18 - Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:55 AM EST
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